So, back in the day, before you were this major, major producer, writer, you know, creator, what was your first job?

The first job that I had was, I had two part-time jobs when I was 14 years old.

I worked at an, uh, at a dentist office, uh, sterilizing his instruments.

So anybody, Yeah.

Anybody.

That feels like the worst job.

Yeah, if you had a root canal in 1988, I can guarantee you that it was done cleanly and antiseptically.

And then I was also working at the local movie theater.

Um, it was a Tenplex.

So I worked there from all through high school, 14 to 17.

Um, and so every movie that came in, I saw, no matter what it was.

So you were also a TV buff, growing up right?

Oh, Yeah, exactly.

So a huge consumer of television.

Not a not that active of the social life.

I know that's probably shocking, but yeah.

But I wasn't paid to watch TV.

I was paid to watch movies.

Now you are.

Yeah, exactly.

There you go.

My first real job besides McDonald's, that was the toughest job ever.

If you have time to lean, you have time to clean.

No, my first job was a tram host.

I drove the tram from the Mirage Hotel to Treasure Island back and forth like a

No way.

Yes, it's embarrassing.

$8 an hour, graveyard shift.

$8 an hour is pretty good though.

9:00 to 5:00 in the morning, frozen.

And were you good at it?

You never crashed it?

Oh my God.

I was the best.

I was the best tram operator ever.

I spoke all these different languages.

All right, let's hear it.

So, uh, "Wo de mingzi jiao Anthony."

My name is Anthony.

My name is called Anthony.

My name is Anthony in Japanese.

And then I guess you can speak Cambodian "Chumreabsuor," which is how are you?

My very first job as a writer in Hollywood, um, was uh, writing an episode of Knight Rider.

In the in the final, um, season of the of that show.

Wow.

Yeah.

Which I'm very proud of.

So what character did you write?

Like the talking car and all that.

The talking car, you wrote the car's lines?

I wrote the wrote Kit, Kit was the car.

And it was a an episode called Voodoo Knight, where the car gets possessed by a voodoo princess.

It's a really auspicious beginning and uh, people loved that show and I loved the idea that I got to work on a show that people, you know, remembered for so long.

And at the time, did you think I really made it?

Or have you had a moment in Hollywood that you thought I really made it?

I think that was probably the of all the the, you know, I've had many successes, but many setbacks and all that, but the truth is, that one I think felt the the biggest.

I think, you know, I think that, um, the first time that I got a I got a paycheck in the mail for writing something, that was the moment where I was like, oh my God, someone actually paid me to do this thing that I love and that I wanted to do forever.

Yeah, exactly.

I didn't have to clean any dental instruments to get this check.

And that, I don't think I I don't think it was sort of like, uh, you know, a the the theatrical fist pump, but I do remember feeling like, wow, if I can if I can keep this up, I'm going to be pretty happy.

But the project you are working on, George Clooney.

Yes.

Is he as dreamy in person?

Uh, he is, uh, there are moments when you're talking to George where he's just talking and you and you're like, I'm sorry, I was just falling into your eyes right now.

And I'm a I'm a happily married man.

I want to make that very clear.

I I respect.

I know Ryan Gosling, George Clooney, you're going to get a reputation.

I respect boundaries.

I'm very comfortable admitting that, uh, okay, you know, George is, uh, is a fantastically, it's more about the charisma than it is about the dreaminess.

Right.

How has your sort of transition been from TV into digital?

Like, do you have more power?

Do you have more leeway?

I mean, what is sort of like the biggest difference for you?

Um, I think it's it's it's it's a lot more fun to me.

Really?

Because I think as an artist, digital is where it's at.

You know, you're able to really be your own creator, your own artist, kind of like call your own shots, you know, have more ownership of it.

A larger scale.

Yeah.

It's much more control.

Yeah.

Nothing about control freak, but I just feel like I like the, you know, digging and just have more effect on what I'm doing artistically.

You know, I think there's absolutely no future in the digital realm.

Oh.

No, I'm kidding.

The truth is, the way it is right now, and that that can very likely change over time.

But the way it is right now, it's still, uh, if you can do things for the conventional, the conventional way, it's, uh, in my business.

You know, millions and millions of people watching your show every week.

Yes.

And then you get the budget that you then afford Right.

The production value and the actors and the writers that you want.

That's still the preferable way to do it at this point.

Yeah.

But you know, if you maybe you have a smaller idea or an idea that's not right for that, but it's something you want to do that's more personal, that's a great place to do that right now.

I'm going to throw some like words or phrases at you.

Tell me the first thing that comes to your mind.

Word association.

Okay.

Okay.

Pilot season.

Uh, hell.

Hell.

Uh, bone call.

Uh, anxiety.

Uh, nervousness, um, craziness.

Network notes.

Anxiety.

Death by a thousand cuts.

Abominable.

Uh, necessary.

Really?

So you appreciate them.

Necessary.

Okay.

You know.

It's like exercise.

Yes.

Necessary.

It's like you force yourself to go to the gym kind of thing.

Right.

Hyper diet.

Necessary.

Agents.

Consiglieri.

It's an a, it's an Italian word from The Godfather.

Full of crap.

Some of my best friends.

Ratings.

Ratings.

Ratings are good.

You want ratings.

Distracting.

Overrated.

Irrelevant.

Really?

Becoming irrelevant.

Interesting.

Still, still, we still live and die by them in network television, but they are, we're about to see a time when they're, when the Nielsen ratings are becoming less and less relevant.

And last but not least, Nikki Finke.

Truth teller.

Obsessed.

In terms of me towards her.

I mean, I check, well, I, uh, it's it's not an obsession with her as much as it is with her writing and what she does and her site.

I started, uh, checking Deadline during the writer's strike, sort of obsessively, and the and it's never stopped.

So it's like, it's the first, it's it's number number one bookmark page.

You know, um, I just I love their reporting.

It's very simple, very basic, no nonsense.

You can always trust it.

It's never erroneous.

And I really think that it changed, uh, media in in, um, Hollywood for the better.

Powerful.

Powerful.

Yeah.

Incredible to see how quickly that has changed Hollywood, uh, in terms of like where you get your information, how you get your information, how quickly you get your information.

You always know that that, um, that there's a source where if you need something fast and immediate, that it seems to be there.

I think it's actually been great.

It's it's sort of made that rumor mill, um, a lot more like you know now that there's a source where you can go and find out if things are actually really happening or not.

That's true.

I like Nikki.

I like people who say what's on their mind.

Uh, and she certainly does.

And so far, she's been kind of ridiculously nice to me, and I don't know exactly why, but I will take it.

Don't jinx it.

I'm not going to jinx it.

She's been very sweet.

Thank you, Nikki.

Thank you, Nikki.

And, uh, so we're all good.

So wait, the last time before I let you go, the last time we spoke, you were ill.

And everybody else, you were releasing Blackbox TV.

You were going to do a movie scream.

What do I do with the camera?

I'm not sick anymore.

I'm Jeff.

Can't hear anything else you're about to say, so we're wrapping.

Say thank you so much.

Great to see you again.

Young Hollywood.